People Against Prisons Aotearoa

[95bFM Radio interview transcript with Jennifer Shields on the 28th August. Thanks to Sophie B for the transcript]

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Anna: Corrections will be apologising to prisoner Jade Follett following revelations she requested a transfer from Rimutaka Prison to a women’s facility. Corrections told us on Wednesday they received that request last week, but it’s since emerged the request was filed months ago, but went nowhere when a staff member went on leave.

Activist group No Pride in Prisons has raised Follett’s plight through protest action and media attention. I speak to Jennifer Shields.

Jen, what’s your response to Corrections saying they’re offering an apology?

Jennifer [birds chirping in background]: We reckon that that’s the absolute minimum they should be doing. They left Jade in a hugely unsafe situation for two months longer than needed because they were incompetent and lost the transfer request; and then when we started our action and the press started putting pressure on them, they simply kept stating that they’d only received it last weekend, which meant that everyone was questioning Jade’s integrity. [bird chirping swells] Which we think on top of everything else is completely abhorrent.

Anna: It sounds like there was a breakdown in Corrections processes. Do you accept that as an excuse from the Minister?

Jennifer: No, look, that’s what happened, it’s definitely not an excuse. It shouldn’t have happened in the first place, Jade shouldn’t have been in Rimutaka in the first place. Their whole process for this entire thing needs to be updated and changed, and improved.

Anna: Have you been surprised at how swiftly Corrections moved on this once media got involved?

Jennifer: A bit surprised maybe but pleased. After two or three months of silence on OIA requests, we were pleased to see them respond so quickly once the media pressure got put on. But at the same time disappointed, because they could have been responding this whole time.

Anna: Do you think that it is a coincidence that Minister Sam Lotu-Iiga is addressing the threat of violence in this case, at a time when there are almost fresh, daily reports of horrific violence in New Zealand prisons?

Jennifer: Yeah, I think the transfer request was really simple to approve, it just required one person saying yes. We’re really pleased that it happened but we think it was quite an easy way for Corrections to do something right when everything else is going wrong.

Anna: Do you think Jade is aware of the attention that her case has garnered over the past few days?

Jennifer: We’re not sure. It’s really hard to get in touch with her; the letters take a couple of weeks; we’ve been in touch briefly via her lawyer. All we know is that she’s really happy to have been moved.

Anna: Lotu-Iiga said in his letter to Jan Logie, I’ll quote it now, “I can assure you that decisions made regarding Jade’s placement have been done with her wellbeing and safety being of paramount concern.” Do you have confidence in that statement?

Jennifer: I mean yeah, I think  once they made the decision it was because of that, but in the same letter and in every other press statement, and response to our requests, they have the same line they fall back on: that “Corrections is aware and sympathetic to the needs of transgender prisoners, especially around issues of placement and safety.” We reckon if that was true, this wouldn’t have happened in the first place.

Anna: Do you think that generally speaking, there’s an issue of a mismatch between the law and its practical application, or that this is quite specific to this case?

Jennifer: Yeah, I would agree that in general, if you look at the Human Rights Act, the recommendation from the Human Rights Commission, and if you compare that to Corrections policy, I think there’s a massive mismatch, and I think their policy needs to be updated.

Anna: Do you wanna talk about what is coming up for No Pride in Prisons?

Jennifer: Yeah! So next Friday we’re holding a public event talking about this issue and what it means for Corrections and prisons and trans safety in general.  We’re also pushing on Corrections to answer the questions we’ve asked them about how many trans prisoners there are, where they’re being kept, what their safety is like. We’ve heard from one person who knows of another trans prisoner in the wrong prison, so we’re gonna be helping them with advocacy and making sure that Corrections knows that we know that they’re there, so they can’t do this again.

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